Monday, April 26, 2010

No Not Detail Lines

Here's a recent situation for a Revit MEP firm. They download the architect's model. They import the model. They need to coordinate their design with a good number of lab cabinets and equipment. When they open the views to see the labs they don't see any equipment. Curious, they open the pdf's they were sent. Casework and equipment galore. Now they open the file that they downloaded and take a closer look. Sure enough, there are cabinets and equipment. Closer look still...oh, no! They aren't families, they are detail lines, drawn in the view. Some are groups, some aren't.

Now we know why they don't show up in the RME model after linking the architectural model in. Detail lines are view specific so they won't show up unless they override the view to show the same view the detail lines are in within the architectural model. Doing so unfortunately introduces other annotation they don't want to see. Nuts and double nuts!

Moral of the story, if using detail lines seems like the expedient thing to do, just ask yourself, "Who does this affect downstream?". Sometimes you just need to say no. If you can draw it once in plan in the project with detail lines you can expend just about the same effort to make simple plan only families and be nicer to those you hope to collaborate with.

I saw this bumper sticker on a Facebook site called PA of the Day.

They post a picture of various Public Address (PA) systems/equipment each day. It's a site that appeals to a certain group of people. A twist on a familiar drinking and driving bumper sticker and for the purpose of this tale, "Friends don't let friends use detail lines instead of families!".


T1shep said...

How do detail components play into this? Will they show up, or do we need to make "3d" components and only use 2d symbolic lines for elements we don't want to go to the hassle of making full geometry?

Anonymous said...

Plan only families aren't the only solution. Drawing the cabinet work using Model lines, beings they come through links, would save the architects from having to create "plan only" families if they don't wish to go through that much effort and are more comfortable drawing the cabinets into the model vs. placing family instances. With that being said, creating families should be the SOP when using revit if you are comfortable doing so. If you wish to do a count, need to swap out cabinet work, create schedules, etc., family instances which have been placed in the model will be much easier to modify and query information on. Revit 2010 didn't have the ability to switch from detail to model lines which means you would have to redraw the cabinets from scratch. Revit 2011 has the ability to change detail lines to model lines directly which would eliminate having to redraw the cabinets if you made this mistake.

Just the comments of an MEP Engineer......

DaveP said...

Whenever I'm teaching Revit, one of the things I always beta into my students is:
"That's not just a line!"
In this case, I guess:
"That shouldn't be just a line!"

Erik said...

Line conversion is available in 2010 subscription advantage..not just 2011. that may or may not help.

Chris said...

Work-around: Open Arch model find offending view. Export view to ACAD. erase all walls link into MEP model. Takes probably about 1/2 hour per view.

Christopher Hubbard said...

This is abit old, but it reflects a debate on AUGI about 2D vs 3d. The question came from someone who drafted a workstation using detail lines, grouped it and copied it.

While I disagree with this workflow, we often use symbolic lines to create families that are 2D only but are of a 3D category and therefore show on all plans where the model would be visibly.

In the case of the equipment this would have helped the MEP and were it me I would send the file back and ask for it to be done right. Yes we could use the By Hosted View or convert or god forbid go to autocad, but as an architect I would be embarressed if I did that and gave it to my consultant. (BTW I have done something just as bad, left underlay on before exporting to CAD for MEP. Got yelled at) and feel the need to correct my error.

Work inside the system and place elements, not draw.