Linked Details - 3rd Party Tool Options

This is an update to a much earlier post after getting a couple comments on that thread. These are three companies I'm familiar with that are providing solutions that contend with sharing details between projects and multiple model projects.

Revolution Design - Revit Workflow

26 Degrees Software - ViewAQC

Parallax Team - Parallax Linked Details

Check them out!

Revit MEP - Detail Callout Bias or Gotcha

Many of Revit mEp families use a nested annotation symbol to provide the standard graphics we are used to seeing in electrical documentation. Here's a little example of a few of these families.

If you created a Callout view and these symbols vanish my bet is that you've used a Detail Callout. Here's what a Detail Callout view of the same families looks like.

It's definitely a quirky thing, but these nested annotations in outlets don't show up in Detail Callout view. Feel free to start trying adjustments to Visibility/Graphics, Detail Level, Discipline and more...I've been down the road already. I'm pretty sure we're looking at a bug, or at least a conundrum brought about by the way these nested annotations work.

This view type is also fussy about creating other elements, like a room/space for example. As such I understand that this view type is intended as the last stop or end of the road with regard to drafting up a detail, for detailing not modeling with. It's just odd that these annotation elements won't appear in the view.

If you want an enlarged plan to show these annotation then avoid the Detail Callout, use the Floor Plan type instead.

Detailing and Circles

If using a Detail Line and drawing a circle Revit doesn't much care for attaching a dimension to the "side" of it, in this case it is a conduit, when they are sketched that way. We can sketch a short straight line segment and place a dimension that references that instead.

If we create and use Detail Items for 2D versions of real things then we'll find the dimensions more accommodating. The advantage of being a component is it can be re-used, provide a variety of sizes as types and they can be tagged. Lines have never been quite the equal to components in Revit's world. I do think it is a bit silly that the dimensions don't work on a detail line used to create a circle. We can only dimension the diameter, radius or from center to another element.

Insert 2D from File

I read another post this morning that prompted me to mention "another door", another way to get where we want to go. In this case James mentions using the Display Model setting for a view to only show the annotation (2D stuff) that's been added. The intention being to then copy/paste that useful stuff to another project. It's a harvesting exercise and one the developers created a specific tool for, "Insert 2D Elements from File".

This tool allows you to browse to another project, select from the views of that project and choose those that have 2D information that you'd like to use in this project. If you've ever thought, "I know there is a great detailing in a wall section in XYZ Project, I wish I could just grab it", you can!

It's brother (or sister) Insert Views from File allows us to harvest drafting views, schedules and sheets that contain either.

Projects with Shared Details

These projects typically have "standard/common/shared" details AND "specific/custom" details. It's a pretty common question, "How do I manage the shared details?". In an earlier post I wrote about the Insert Views from File tool that Revit added several years ago. The overall strategy I like boils down to this list:

• Do all the detailing that they share in "one" project
• Do all the detailing that is shared in Drafting Views, not model "live" views
• Use Insert Views from File to pass them to the other projects.
• This allows for local view referencing of callouts/sections etc
• Do all shared detailing in the "master" project
• Only worry about keeping the sheet and detail numbering updated between all sheets
• Don't bother to update the details in each other project, the views could be blank for that matter (except for a piece of text, has to be something in the view)
• Print all shared details from the master
• Strategically use a separate sheet numbering scheme for shared details so they don't compete with project specific details.
• Only necessary to manage sheet reference and detail numbers during the course of the project and add new shared details if they arise.
• Easiest when detailing is done in later stages of documentation naturally

I think that it's easy to miss that it isn't really necessary to put "finished" details in all the other project files to keep them "up-to-date". The only thing we need to keep "up-to-date" is the sheet number and detail numbers, assuming that detail sheets are printed from the master project instead of from each individual project. That's why I suggest a separate sheet numbering scheme for these shared details, so they don't compete with the rest of the set.

ARCxl - Updates and Changes

I wrote about ARCxl a couple times in the past because they have been working to make detailing work in Revit more efficient and easier.

They recently let me know that the restrictions they imposed in the past have been removed. If you want details for Revit it is now even easier to review their library and download what you need. They've also started providing .dwg and .pdf versions of the details.

Be sure to check it out!

Detailing in Revit - ARCXL

There are a growing number of resources available for Revit families. I'm not aware of anyone focused entirely on providing complete details. I received an email from Mark Siever with ARCXL.

He wrote:
We have created a native Revit built library and web based interface for accessing the library. Currently it exceeds 36,000 completed architectural details. These standard details (not simple component families) currently fall under the following categories; Roof, Window, Door and Foundation. We are presently working on stair details, railings, and a system of linking our details and included parametric components to specification sections.

He put together a video demonstration of what they offer (hosted at YouTube) and I've embedded it here if you are interested (nearly 9 minutes long). The service they provide isn't free and each detail will cost you around $15 if you buy them individually. The website says they are offering introductory prices of $12.99 each and they'll reduce the price to $9.99 each for orders of 50 or more details. You can request some free samples for evaluation via email. Here's the video.

Off Topic: I liked the opening/closing music, in the video, by Ronald Jenkees. Reminds me of Michael Lee Firkins style as well as Michael Reese.

No Not Detail Lines

Here's a recent situation for a Revit MEP firm. They download the architect's model. They import the model. They need to coordinate their design with a good number of lab cabinets and equipment. When they open the views to see the labs they don't see any equipment. Curious, they open the pdf's they were sent. Casework and equipment galore. Now they open the file that they downloaded and take a closer look. Sure enough, there are cabinets and equipment. Closer look still...oh, no! They aren't families, they are detail lines, drawn in the view. Some are groups, some aren't.

Now we know why they don't show up in the RME model after linking the architectural model in. Detail lines are view specific so they won't show up unless they override the view to show the same view the detail lines are in within the architectural model. Doing so unfortunately introduces other annotation they don't want to see. Nuts and double nuts!

Moral of the story, if using detail lines seems like the expedient thing to do, just ask yourself, "Who does this affect downstream?". Sometimes you just need to say no. If you can draw it once in plan in the project with detail lines you can expend just about the same effort to make simple plan only families and be nicer to those you hope to collaborate with.

I saw this bumper sticker on a Facebook site called PA of the Day.

They post a picture of various Public Address (PA) systems/equipment each day. It's a site that appeals to a certain group of people. A twist on a familiar drinking and driving bumper sticker and for the purpose of this tale, "Friends don't let friends use detail lines instead of families!".

Is it CAD or Revit?

I received a sample drawing today. We were discussing detailing with Revit. While I was checking it out I thought of the cassette tape competition for our money back when Memorex was asking us "Is it Live or is it Memorex?" in their commercials.


Considering the focus of this blog you might logically conclude that the above image is a detail completed in Revit. If I didn't give it away would you assume it was Revit or CAD?

It is a Revit detail. All too often people dismiss Revit as not being as efficient as other software for this type of drafting or that the results don't look as good. On both counts they are mistaken.

By the way, the detail is from Scott with WTW Architects in Pittsburgh, PA. (RIP Scott, he passed away a couple years ago now)

Edit: per a comment here is another image of the same view with the Detail Components category turned off. The text, dimensions, callout and grids are obviously annotation.

Using Acad Details - An Oldy but Goody

I posted this in June 2004 at AUGI just after Zoogdesign merged with AUGI. Still true today with a couple of changes to Revit since, I wrote:

I was preparing a short discussion for our local Revit user group meeting, South Coast Revit User Group (SCRUG) to cover detailing with Revit. While not an expert at detailing as an architectural person by any means I have spent a fair amount of time working with acad details and microstation too...the following applies to AutoCAD detail files specifically but most will apply to Microstation as well.

This list was also assembled assuming that "you" are not abandoning the acad files in favor of Revit only based details. These tips will help you keep the details portable and useable in either application.

First, stay focused on your goals and choose common ground that helps you achieve them. Avoid statements that start with; "I can't..." We can't..." "I won't...."

Font and Dimension Tips:
DON'T use a width factor other than (1) in AutoCAD text styles (Revit now supports width factors in text and dimension styles but may not import them initially)
DON'T use custom symbols that aren't also present in the TTF font
DON'T use a custom leader routine and/or custom arrows/terminators

DO use a TTF font in AutoCAD OR
DO use Revit's shxfontmap.txt to map shx fonts to a TTF font in Revit)
DO use the dimension leader object in AutoCAD
DO use a standard arrow or dimension terminator
DO make sure that blocks with attributes follow these rules too

Project Mgmt and General:
DO put details in a project specific location and don't move them
DO Import and link details and check the "current view" option
DO consider a separate detail project if you are dealing with a large multi-building project
DO manage them in "one" place, for consistency (AutoCAD since that's what were talking about here)
DO use a detail specific layer structure to manage lineweights more easily if required
DO make sure your details are located near 0,0 (origin)
DO use custom programming routines to automate changes these tips require
DO make sure drafting views use the same scale as the imported detail
Do use hatches that are not too dense or too large (defining "too" varies unfortunately)
Do use hatches that are properly bounded and don't use line segments that are too short for Revit (<1/32")

DON'T move the details once linked
DON'T explode details (change them in Acad, if you want to keep them useable for both)

If you must explode (don't), do so in a separate project to isolate all the extra objects styles, line patterns and styles and fill patterns that will proliferate in the project after doing so. If you have many "line has inaccurate direction..." or "line is too short..." errors. Embed the geometry of the detail in a detail component family first. Then use that in your project, the errors will be trapped in the family and not burden your Review Warnings process, and finish detailing with Revit text, dimensions etc.

If you follow these "rules" you will find that you can, nearly always, import a detail "as is" and minimize rework on libraries that will likely remain available for both applications. (stay dwg that is)

Remember the goal probably ought to be pure Revit details eventually so I prefer to think of this as a bridging activity instead of a long term solution.

If you compare this post with the AUGI post I've added a little bit here...