Room Tags and Leaders

For many years I wished room tags would turn on a leader IF I dragged a room tag outside of the room's boundary. I got my wish in Revit 2023.1. I also got more than I wished for which is not that uncommon unfortunately, thus the saying, "Careful what you wish for".

When we are moving rooms around things go awry. If we drag a room to a new location the tag turns on the leader instead of bringing the tag along with it like it would for other tagged elements. When I move a room that already has a tag with a leader the leader will update and point to the new room location. However, if I decide to remove the leader the tag returns to the original room location, not its new home. I have to turn on the leader, to wake it up, so it will point to the new room location. Then I have to turn off the leader to get the room tag to jump to its new home. Here's an image of the sequence I describe above.

I should be careful to select the room tag and move it with the room. That doesn't contend with all the other possible views that have tags referencing the room though.

The documentation review and cleanup we have to do when rooms are relocated is a necessary part of the design process, with all the potential changes that can occur. In the past warnings were generated when a room and its tag(s) were not reconciled. We could then deal with those warnings by activating the Warning dialog and clicking the Move to Room button. When such a warning occurred while opening a model we could resolve them all at that time too.

Yes, we'd still have to review and fine tune them most likely but all the tags related to the room would at least be in the room. We can also choose to delete all the tags in a view and use Tag All Untagged. What if most of the room tags were positioned nicely with and without leaders? We'd lose all that work and have to do it over again.

It's my opinion that dragging a room's tag outside a room should be treated as different from dragging a room outside its boundaries and we should have a different result for each.

• Drag a room tag away from its room and turning on the leader is cool and it should remain view specific.
• Drag a room (to within new boundaries) should leave whatever condition is true for all of its room tags but move them along with the room proportionately (see next).
• Drag a room and if there is no leader the tag should follow the room and not turn on a leader. If the leader is active then it should maintain its position relative to the room but move along with it.
• Delete a room and the associated tags should be deleted too (which is what happens). We can then place that room elsewhere and tag as required.

Documentation review and adjustments are unavoidable but these actions should mitigate how extensive the task might be as well as be more consistent with what I'd expect to happen when I move rooms around.

Snap Option - Mid Between 2 Points

When this new snap option appeared in Revit 2022.1 it was a LONG time coming. Not being able to snap to place something between two point has annoyed many a user for years. My problem is remembering it exists now. I've been using it quite a bit lately so perhaps the habit will stick. While it never really bothered me that it wasn't available I'm quite happy to have it now.

If my memory serves me it wasn't built into AutoCAD initially, perhaps an Express Tools addition? Regardless it does help speed up a common task!

Haven't noticed or used it yet? It's just a right click away while many tasks are in process, such as sketching a line, wall, or sketch segment. It's also useful for placing components. Check it out.

Leaders and Tags

A frequent source of frustration is how leaders relate to the information in tags. The more complicated a tag family is the harder it becomes to ensure the tag's leader(s) will align with the graphics or text it has. A leader connects to the midpoint along the overall extents of a tag's graphics and labels. Imagine a rectangle that surrounds all of the graphics in your tag (see and unseen), the overall extent of that information. The leader connects to the midpoint on this rectangle on each of its four sides as you drag the leader around the tag.

It is possible to play tricks with invisible lines to increase or decrease the perceived size of the tag so this elusive midpoint leader connection point can be controlled. It takes some experimentation and only one little circumstance we didn't anticipate to mess things up. This is just a simple example, using the stock room tag family, that illustrates how the leaders are too arbitrary.

They work okay for a couple instances but for others they don't. In this case Volume isn't getting calculated at the moment so the information displayed is too long and it messes up the leader location. In a big enough room the calculated volume value could easily be long enough to do the same thing to the tag.

We want/need a definitive way to tell Revit where a leader should connect to the tag information. I recently ran across a suggestion that I'd love to see happen. You probably already know that Revit MEP content uses connectors to define where pipe/duct/electrical relationships start or connect. What if we had a Leader connector element we could add to our tag families? Something like this perhaps?

I've added numbers to define the priority for the leader connectors, like adaptive point families have for example. As I drag a leader around a tag Revit should adjust the leader shoulder to connect to the next numbered connector. For those that are close to one another (in the same quadrant) the TAB key should cycle, or just cycle through all the possible connectors.

The information supplied to the parameters displayed in a tag could still mess up the leader location but no solution will be perfect. At least with a specific location we can concentrate on designing a tag that will work nearly perfectly. If we can't control the length of the data in the labels then we just need a way to adjust the connector's location relative to the information. This means we'd need to be able to add dimensions and constrain the connector locations with parameters too.

I'd also love to be able to use a parameter to control the length of a label in a tag. This would allow us to increase the overall length of the data that shows up before wrapping to a new line. Combining that with parameters to control the location of leader connectors would provide considerable control of the tag and its leader(s).

Family Editor Please Respect Visibility Settings

[rant mode on]

I really really really really really wish the family editor would honor the Detail Level settings, as well as Yes/No parameter assignment relationship to elements. It is magical enough working in the family editor environment. When you have complicated geometry meshing with lots of visibility controls and options it would be so helpful if we didn't have to drop it into a project to see if they are working correctly.

Yes the elements turn light gray when Yes/No parameters govern or Detail Level settings, but often it would be so much more helpful if it actually turned OFF!

[rant mode off...maybe...]

Dept. of Wishes - AUGI Wish Lists for Revit Structure and MEP

While I served on the board for AUGI we saw the start of the Revit Architecture wish list at AUGI. Getting them started for Structure and MEP just wasn't in the cards then. Time passes and AUGI has just announced new wish lists for both!!

The following text was clipped from BLAUGI:

TIME TO VOTE!

Revit MEP and Revit Structure Wish List ballot closes on Aug 31st at 12:00 am GMT.

AUGI Members, it is time once again to let Autodesk know what you would like to see in future releases of Revit MEP and Revit Structure. The next Wish List ballot is open. Autodesk uses the results of AUGI Wish List ballots to help plan out improvements in the software. Take advantage of this opportunity. The only thing you need is a membership in AUGI, and a little bit of your time.

You've submitted your wishes, now come vote on the ones you'd most like to see become a part of the product you use on a daily basis. On behalf of all of the wish list team members - reviewers and administrators - thank you for your time and your vote!

Vote now for Revit MEP and Revit Structure!

You must be an AUGI member and you must log in to vote.

Area Measurement - An Arbitrary Tool

A common request is for a tool to quickly measure the area of something. It's created a number of angry or puzzled posts at AUGI over the years. Most describe the tool as, "Give us the same tool as AutoCAD's Measure tool".

In my view most of the reasons for such a tool are disguised suggestions for improvements to schedules. A few examples? Glazing reports for the exterior envelope of a building. The Area tools would cover this but they don't work in elevation because of their bias for plan views. Some others are the area of Louver, grills, diffusers and floor materials or patterns. It comes down to curiosity I suppose, "How much area does this thing cover?".

I've no objection to having a quick area tool but we ought to be defining the kind of data that we'd like to have quick access to anyway, that Revit SHOULD do or provide. If we need the area of louvers once, chances are good we'll need to check those numbers again. Computers are good at that, why should we have to sketch around louvers at all or worse create a spreadsheet for that information? A louver schedule ought to provide a quicker summary of all of them. A quick look at the properties of a louver ought to tell us that.

A measure area tool would still be good to do something arbitrary once in awhile.

Incidentally the Region tool will do exactly that with maybe an extra click or two. They added that to the tool as a result of this issue. It is something you can keep for awhile too, or throw away. Seems that most people object to extra step of deleting the resulting Filled Region. We have to cancel out of the command in AutoCAD don't we? Semantics really. It'll get you what you want for now. If you set up an extra view to create them in you can revisit them anytime you want.

We can remind them that we'd still like a specific tool as well.

Dept. of Wishes - Continue a Command in a Separate View

People familiar with AutoCAD are probably used to being able to split a view into more than one viewport. This permits you to zoom in on different parts of the model space and start a command at one end of a building and finish the command at the other end by making the appropriate part of the view active. Revit can provide another window and you can tile it but you can't start, for example, the wall tool and place the first point in one view and then place the second point in the other view. This would be quite handy!!

You can use the Trim tool however, pick one wall in one view and pick another wall in another view. Same for the Align tool.

Similar weakness for the dimension tool and lines, can't start the dimension tool in one view and pick another to finish it up. Same for lines.

Speaking of Walls or lines you CAN, in one view, start a wall at one end, Zoom to Fit, Zoom in Region and place the second point. Not nearly as fast or efficient as a second focused viewport perhaps but it'll get you there.

Wish - Dimension Enhancement

One more wish that I hear very often, place a dimension across multiple elements by sketching a "line". Pick two points to define all elements that should be included in a dimension string. Further to that it would be good if you could sketch a multi-segment "path" as well.

I could wait till Monday...

Revit Structure - Wishlist - More Connection Types

We have Moment and Cantilever now.
We need...

Stiffener - Plate Steel welded between flanges
Braced Connection - structure between top flange and bottom flange of another beam
Drag - Beam that connects into another building frame and additional members extend bracing into the adjacent structure.

I suspect that one reason these other options don't exist is that external analysis tools either ignore these connect subtleties or deal with them differently enough that they've held off providing them. This is likely a "documentation" versus "engineering" situation...just a guess on my part.

Wish - Mass Floor Selection Dialog

Most of the time I want to select all or nearly all the levels in my project when using Mass Floors. It would be nice if the dialog offered a ALL and NONE selection button to make it faster. Similar to other dialogs like the Filter Dialog for example. Here's what I'm thinking...


In the meantime I just select the first level, press the Shift Key and then select the last Level. Then I check any level's check box...same thing only different.

Wish - Calculated Values in Tags

This is a common wish. We want to be able to DISPLAY calculated values not only in schedules but also in tags. Right now lacking this feature makes me feel like this guy!



Thanks to this site for the image.

Amended 09/11/08 - Per the comment, note that I'm asking to DISPLAY a calculated value in a tag. I'm not telling anyone how to accomplish it. I'm asking to be able to use a tag family to report a value that is the result of a calculation in a project relative to any element.

Wish - Recent Files Window

This feature appeared with the release of 2009 in response to frequent criticism of the standard Windows compliant behavior of opening a template when the application is started. Ironically a fair number of users don't like this new behavior either despite Revit opening a bit faster.

Here are three items I've heard in my travels.

Office Customization - Let us create our own border or at least add to the stock border to include office links to important help documentation/standards/news.

Icon/List/Detail - Display options similar to Windows Explorer that permit us to view more files as icons (current method) or list and detail view.

Browse/New - Currently these options appear at the bottom of the list which makes using them inefficient because we must scroll to access them. They take up very little space so put them at the top instead. They won't hurt picking our last project or family or second/third and now they are more accessible. Faster (a little) now than just using the File menu or the Open icon on the toolbar.

For a nice tip and example of what I'm suggesting that uses the now more or less typical Drafting View approach, check out THIS POST by Craig.

Wish - Revit Dimension Features

This is dedicated to two perhaps minor wishes but I hear them echoed everywhere I go.

"Glue" - Permit two separate co-planar dimension strings to become one string. If separate dimension styles the first pick defines the "good" string, the style to use.

"Split" - The opposite, create two separate strings by selecting a point along the dimension string. The pick point defines which string the section selected remains attached to. In other words you split near the side you want the split segment to remain connected to. Maybe images would be clearer?



Or the reverse, but either way I'd take it!

Include the "Delete Inner Segment" option on the Options Bar! This way we just remove the selected segment and any between the first selection and a second, just like it works on walls/lines etc.

Wishlist - Top Five - August 19, 2008

I was asked today what my current top five wish list items are. I rattled these off pretty quick.

1 STAIRS/RAMPS/RAILINGS - A complete redesign of functionality
2 CURTAIN WALLS - More...more capable and more real
3 RAC/RST/RME - Suite/bundle - All in one package.
4 RAC/RST/RME - Continue to improve the BIM integration
5 SITE DESIGN Tools - Roads, curbs, parking lots, retaining walls

I offer these thoughts as well...

An improved text editor is on the list for me, just not top five...just put it at number six for now. But then consider, IF "it's" about the model, AND it is more important than drawings in the future then a text editor's role is a thing of the not too distant future's past....

My two cents on exporting to dwg. I'd like to see AutoCAD get smarter about working with Revit. Don't waste Revit resources getting "dumber" for AutoCAD. Let AutoCAD import a Revit project and display a level's view. Import a view...etc. IF Revit is the "flagship" future then the other applications ought to be interoperating with it not the other way around. Probably won't happen in that fashion but I'd prefer they not spend any money making Revit a "better dwg maker".

Uh oh...may catch some flack for those two...overanout!