Move to Room - Element ID - Review Warnings

If we use Review Warnings often enough, and we should be, we'll run into this warning eventually.

Check the item and Click Show to have Revit try to find a view to show it in. Once it is selected we can either drag the Tag where it is suppose to go or Click the Show Related Warnings button on the ribbon to show the dedicated warning it has again.

When this warning is isolated like this the dialog includes the Move to Room button. An aside, is it amusing or worrisome that Revit seems to think the best way to fix warnings is to delete the offending element (via Delete Checked)? Regardless, Move to Room will resolve the issue whether we can see where the tag is meant to be or not.

Another way to tackle it from the Review Warnings dialog is to make a note of the Element ID referenced in the warning. Now we can then use the Select by ID tool. Enter the ID value and click OK.

This will select the tag, even if we're not in a view that it can be seen in, and then we can use the Show Related Warnings button on the ribbon again followed by the Move to Room button.

Revit 2017 - Space Naming Utility Update - It is Available Now

The other day I poked Autodesk about this feature. As it turns out it is deployed slightly more automatically. The catch is that the latest iteration of Autodesk Desktop Application (I'm going to call it AdA) must be used to see these updates.

My first problem was that AdA wasn't working. It just displayed a blank white screen. I also noticed that there was no Autodesk (A icon) in the system tray for an active service. Eventually I used the wisdom of The IT Crowd; turned it off and on again. That restarted the service and AdA started working, displaying information.

The second problem was there were no updates to choose from. I logged out of A360 and closed its system tray instance. I also logged out of A360 via Revit, since I had it open. I closed the instance of AdA in the system tray too. I had a browser open looking at my Manage portal. I thought that maybe my access settings were wrong. I logged out and closed the browser too. Then I logged back into A360 and launched AdA...voila, updates appeared. It made no difference earlier that I used the right-click Check for New Updates option for AdA in the system tray repeatedly.

Once I got it working again this appeared in AdA.

This a tiny bit better.

People will still have to pay attention to be alerted to download and install it. If they don't have enough control over their computer they'll still have to get EyeTee involved. I'll have to see if I notice more people have it installed in the coming months.

Once it has been downloaded and installed you don't have to rely on AdA to pass it along to others in the office though. You can just capture the downloaded installation file from the location defined when you downloaded and installed it the first time (C:\Autodesk by default).

It is also a bit tedious that every one of the updates is a separate installation; must be run and completed before starting another. If you attempt to run them while another is running you'll run into messages about something already being in process.

By the way, when you run Revit after installing all the available updates you may be greeted by "Security - Unsigned Add-in" warnings. Nice...

I've got my Space Naming Utility! Do you? I hope so!

...and thanks to Paul Aubin for the heads up!

Space Naming Utility for Revit 2017

Hi Autodesk Revit Team! It's me Mr. OpEd again. Imagine me with a pointy stick, I'm poking you in the eye...metaphorically...with words on a blog.

Since the AutoCAD team just made 2017 available I can infer that we'll be seeing a new release of Revit in the very near future.

Let me just go on record now.

The Space Naming Utility SHOULD be built into Revit 2017 so that it is installed automatically or better yet, it's just on the Annotation ribbon as a native feature, NOT an add-on.

I might as well let ya'll know now, and AGAIN, that it is utterly reeeeee-freeeeeekin-diculousssss if it isn't!!!!!

If the rationale for keeping it separate is that not many people use it perhaps that's because it is a separate application??!! If the ribbon UI is supposed to improve the odds of discovering features it sure would help to be ON the ribbon. Built IN.

Capisce? The berating will continue until the SNU is part of Revit. I know there are much more important things in the world to be upset about. Yet, someone must continue the fight for equal status of the SNU!

If I take a pessimistic stance, you could, at the very least, make sure it is available for download from the Exchange Apps site as soon as we can actually download and use Revit 2017. Yeah. That would be good...

Revit 2016 - Space Naming Utility Still a Separate Application

The Dept. of Echoooo...

Yes, sadly the Space Naming Utility for Revit MEP 2016 is STILL a utility, as in a separate download AND installation from the Autodesk Exchange|Apps site.

It's still just wrong, wrong, wrong...it should have been incorporated into the Revit MEP toolset long ago. How hard could it be?

Spaces instead of Areas

Area plans have their quirks. They can only exist in their own special area plan views. They've got rules and quite often people want to break those rules. If we need to do that then we end up sketching boundaries a lot. Areas don't know anything about Rooms either. That means we're probably going to have to enter some data twice if we must use Areas pretending to be Rooms, all to document fussy Room area requirements

If that's the situation we find ourselves in...do we have access to MEP's Spaces? If so we could consider...this...

The plan in this image is an architectural model (yeah really simple mock-up). Is it obvious what I've done? I've got Room tags reporting area only as well as Space tags reporting a little different area value along with Room name and number. It also has a Color Scheme applied to Room departments.

It's also a separate model I called Area Calcs. I linked the Architecture model into Area Calcs. The Room tags I mentioned a moment ago are actually Room tags, tagging each room's area in the link. For Spaces however I opted to just sketch Space Separators over the linked model since I need to identify different parts of the room's boundaries to calculate area anyway. A Space isn't different from a Room when we rely on walls for their boundary, in how they calculate area at least. Sketching our lines gives us complete control over the results without dealing with Area Rules.

A Space Separator is a linestyle (like Area Boundary and Room Separator) and I changed the appearance to a much thicker burgundy line so it stands out against the linked file's plan. I ended up applying transparency to Walls too. Once I defined the boundaries I needed I used the Space tool and opted for Place Spaces Automatically. This creates a Space wherever one is possible within the boundaries I've created. This is done floor by floor, assuming there is more than one floor.

Just in case you weren't aware of this already, a linked file has a Room Bounding option.

If this option is selected then Place Spaces Automatically creates Spaces wherever Revit finds Rooms and valid boundaries even where there aren't any rooms (note my interior design comment later). Since I need to define room area differently that's not going to help me now. It's intended to speed up the process for engineers while they are preparing their project to start work.

Now that I've got Spaces I can take advantage of a separate tool called Space Naming Utility (SNU). It is crazy that this tool is still a separate installation but it is. At least it isn't locked away in subscription only access anymore. I keep hoping it will show up inside Revit in the next release.

Sorry I digress, it (SNU) will read (from the linked file) each room's name and number and pass it to the equivalent Space's name and number.

One risk here is Revit might not figure out which Room is supposed to be related to a Space. However, if we examine the properties of a Space we'll see right away whether Revit can see a room relationship or not. Plus any Spaces that don't update will be a clue or at least identify a Room that hasn't been filled out with information properly yet. I'm hoping to apply the 80/20 rule here and win.

If I want to use Fill Patterns too, like below, I can create a separate view that only shows a customized Color Scheme that applies Fill Patterns instead of a solid color fill. Then I just stack (overlay) this view on top of the other floor plan on a sheet. I just need to make sure the view is using Wireframe so it doesn't mask the floor plan.

I can even add a separate Color Scheme legend to the other view that's stacked over the floor plan.

Choosing this route might come down to how I answer these questions:

• Do I have Spaces? (Are they part of the Revit version I use?)
• Which is worse, sketching Space Separators or Area Boundaries?
• Which is more fun, using Space Naming Utility or manually updating Area data to match relevant Room data?
• If I know a Dynamo/API programmer then maybe I can improve the Room to Area process instead?

This popped into my head last evening while I was mulling over a client's email. I've suggested using Spaces in the past to help deal with linked interior design models so this time around it didn't seem quite as crazy to me as it did the first time.

Want to poke around the files (Revit 2015) I used for this post?

Area Plans
Area Calcs

Your mileage may vary...

Deleting Spaces or Rooms in Schedules

Want to delete all the Spaces or Rooms you see in a schedule? Take these steps:

• Scroll the bottom of the schedule
• In one fluid sequence click to select the last row (left mouse button) and...
• Drag your cursor UP until it is over the ribbon (yes, beyond the schedule)
• Let go of the left button
• Click Delete

Revit will prompt with a total number of elements that will be deleted. It should match however many was listed in the grand total. Wherever you put your cursor in the schedule and drag up to the ribbon, Revit will let you delete all rooms from there to the top of the schedule even though it is off screen

If you try the same thing from the top down you only get as many rows as are visible in the schedule window.

2014 Revit OpEd

Space Naming still a Utility

Yes, sadly the Space Naming Utility for Revit MEP 2015 is STILL a utility, as in a separate download AND installation from the Subscription site.

It's just wrong, wrong, wrong...

2014 Revit OpEd

Room Area Net vs Gross

When it comes to documenting room area we have one global setting called Room Area Computation, found in the Area and Volume Calculations dialog.

We get to choose from four options that affect the entire project's room area calculations: Wall Finish, Wall Center, Wall core Layer and Wall Core Center. Wall Finish tends to work for net area calculations while Wall Center works better for gross area.

When we need to be able to show both net and gross one approach we can take is to use Area elements and Area plans. Unfortunately area and room objects are totally ignorant of one another. That means an area plan using area elements is NOT a room so we've got a lot of redundant data entry to deal with. Another way to deal with it is to print sheets with the Room Area Computation set for one condition and then switch to the other setting for other sheets intended for that condition. We'll need some "redundant" views with tags etc. but perhaps it will provide the necessary differences required.

Another possibility if we are using Revit, the version that includes all the disciplines tools, is to take advantage of MEP Spaces. They ignore the Room Area Computation setting, they only reference Wall Finish. This means I can create a space for each room, yes some redundancy. I can use the Space Naming Utility (subscription extension) to pass the name and number of the related room to the space name and number parameters so I don't have to enter the redundant information. The end result could look something like this, where I use a plan focused on spaces and another focused on rooms to show both net and gross area calculations.

This nexst image is Gross Area using Wall Centerline as the Room Area Computation settings.

This image is the Net Area using Spaces instead, leaving the Room Area Computation the same as for the above.

This is using Area elements instead matching names and numbers manually. The API might be able to be harness to resolve this to some degree.

Something to consider.

Revit MEP 2014 Space Naming Utility

This is still a separate download and installation but it is available now from the subscription center.

Why should it be part of the software?

Essential Tool - It is impractical to manage the relationship between architecture and engineering models without it. Many of the other extensions that are available (2014 versions available now too) are idiosyncratic, a small percentage of users will tend to use them. I don't think this one is. The fact that several other companies offer similar solutions as add-ons suggest that this one is at least solid enough for general use.

Development Plans - The utility has gone unchanged essentially since its inception. If it has been kept separate because they are going to do something else really wonderful and make it irrelevant, they've had years to do it. Until it really is part of the next release planning, put the one that works in.

Awareness -  Many people don't know it is available, because it is hiding at the subscription center, and therefore just suffer with room/space management. Most users I meet don't have access to the subscription site let alone know of its existence. Even when it is installed it is not in an obvious place so users who haven't been told about it either stumble on to it or don't use it until someone does point it out.

Complaint Dept. - If it remains an extension because of the fear that users will complain that they've "lost" one of their extensions...well... I sure hope that's not a reason.

I say put it on the Analyze Tab with the other Space tools, call it Space/Room Matching, like this:

Just do it!

Revit MEP Space Tag Shows Unoccupied Now

The alternate title I was going to use is, "More Floors Than Revit Wants".

A thread popped up at AUGI recently discussing space tags that were working but aren't now. In this case, the tags being used were made to report the linked file's room name and number instead of showing the space's own name and number. That's a common work around to avoid worrying about what a space's name and number really is.

One reply mentions that they've seen a situation where they have more than one linked file and there are floors in each of them. It's my observation that the multiple floors issue isn't just that there just are multiple floors, it's that usually there are floors that are "inside" the Space. When an architect places "finish" floors on top the structural slab (often in a separate model) they typically place the floor using an offset equal to the material thickness. This puts the floor up/inside the Space.

This seems to reduce the space to a quivering mess.

One thing that fixes it, adjust your level(s) computation height (Instance Property of a Level) so it is equal to the top or slightly above their finish floors. To avoid that, ask them (the team that gave you the file) to set their finish floors so they are not Room Bounding instead. You'll have to wait for the new file though.

Then again, another way is to just use the regular space tag (using space name/number) and the Space Naming Utility extension (free to subscription members) to sync Room names/numbers with Space names/numbers. I'm still amazed that it isn't just built into RME by now.

Space Renumbering Tool - Hackalicious

I got a comment on my previous post about the new Plug-in posted at Autodesk Labs asking about renumbering Spaces.

Well the Room Renumbering tool does not accommodate spaces too. I decided to use this as an excuse to steal a word from Zach Kron (hackalicious) and hack away at the Room code to convert to Space Renumbering. It took me a little less than an hour and two questions to Phillip Miller at Kiwi Codes (though I did find my answers before he replied both times, quick responses though Phillip!!).

I edited every reference to room, Room, ROOM, ROOMS, rooms to space, Space, Space, Spaces, spaces etc. I also had to change every reference to room in the forms and the properties of the "project" (C# code). The builtinparameter for ROOM_NAME is also different, SPACE_ASSOC_ROOM_NAME. I created a new Add-in file and used the GUID site to create a unique GUID for the add-in.

If you are using the existing Space Renaming Tool (available from Autodesk Subscription) to match the architecture model's rooms then you shouldn't need to use this. If you aren't and just need to renumber them then have fun!

Click to Download my hacked version of the room renumbering, now the Space Renumbering Tool.

Hack at your own risk!

Revit MEP–Plenum Spaces and Ceilings

I’ve noticed that Spaces and Ceilings can affect Revit MEP’s ability to display the Space element. I’ve seen it happen and then later correct itself magically. Not likely that it is magical, more like something was adjusted that changes the conditions in the first place. I admit I don’t know yet what that “magic” is.

The conditions for this to occur begin with the addition of a new Level to manage plenum areas in the building. When this new level is added and a view is created it’s a good idea to adjust the view range so it matches the available distance between boundaries. Initially it would be easy to expect this to be the reason that a Space doesn’t show up. When we add a space this error message will usually pop up.


Changing the elevation of the ceiling or the level or some combination will result in Revit being able to show them again. I created a VIDEO that DESCRIBES how the ceiling elevation and the space properties conflict with one another.

[Addendum: January 25,2011]
The issue described above has to do with the Room Computation Height of the Plenum Level, which is a Level Type parameter. The typical Level Types in Revit Templates set the Room Computation Height to be “Automatic”. This really means that the default is 4’ from the Level unless Revit encounters objects in/at the 4’ level. If Revit find issues, it adjusts the Room Computation Height to the Level plane instead.

In this case, the Level type (used for all the levels) uses the Automatic setting, so Revit defaults (when dealing with the Plenum Level) to the Ceiling Level to find the Space extents when it encounters the slab at the 4' elevation. When the bottom edge of the Ceiling Element gets nudged to align with the Ceiling Level, Revit can no longer find a closed circuit.

The solution here, and one that can be generally used, is to create a new Level Type to use for Plenum Levels, and explicitly set the Room Calculation Height to something like 0’ 6”, so the Space will always be cut inside of the Plenum Space.

Thanks to Kyle Bernhardt for the explanation!