Entering Values using the Project Base Point

A recent message asked how they can enter values into the Project Base Point (PBP) like we used to be able to do when the PBP had a clipped/not clipped status.

The answer is Specify Coordinates at Point (SCaP).

They wanted to enter 8,000,000/8,000,000 as their example. R2021 won't accept that value but R2019 would.

In the past, when we selected the PBP, entered coordinate values, it actually shifted the Survey Coordinate System (SCS) away from the Origin/PBP. It was easy to assume we moved the PBP because it is easy to overlook the information that displays above the selected PBP. It says PBP but right underneath (see image) it says Shared Site: and the coordinates it displays are relative to the SCS.

Entering values in the PBP directly (in the past) is same as using SCaP (now). The Survey Point will move to mark the 0,0 origin of the SCS after we enter our values. The PBP will still be at the Internal Origin (IO). The following image is 2019 and 2021 showing the same end result, just using a different tool.

Entering values directly into the PBP now will move it away from the IO, something it did not do in the past. This invokes a Local Coordinate System (LCS) that uses the PBP as its origin. Spot Coordinate/Elevation annotation can reference this LCS. This why Revit won't let us move the PBP too far (10 miles) from the IO.

I think Autodesk should change the PBP reference to the Shared Site since it is confusing. I think the PBP should show reference coordinates back to the Internal Origin. There is probably some room for disagreement though, which is why it probably still references the SCS.

This change seems to annoy people the most because we can't just enter values into the PBP directly and get the "old" result. We can enter values but not to alter the SCS, which is what really happens with the clipped PBP of old. The unclipped status of old is when the LCS is invoked.

The PBP only moves in an unclipped state now, thus no clip.

Revit 2020.2 Internal Origin Part Three

John Pierson and Parallax Team Apps recently shared a solution at the Autodesk App Store called Internal Origin Hide-ifier. I thought mine was cool but it doesn't install itself or come with a Doge.

It's only 1,000 bucks...nope its free!! Check it out.

Internal Origin Follow Up

After I shared the earlier Dynamo graph I received an email from Aaron Rumple that did away with any package requirements. He wrote a python script and added it to my graph. It also eliminates the warning message that appears after running mine. The crux of that issue is the need to filter out view templates from the process because while view templates are applied to views under the hood they are also views...at least that's my layman's understanding.

Many thanks to Aaron, a real design software savant.

Download the new Dyn

As before, my graph allows you to include/exclude the internal origin, survey point and project base point. Just edit the settings of the Dyn before running it (see previous post).

Revit 2020.2 Internal Origin Redux

Happy Thanksgiving to those who observe!

One little thing I'm thankful for, I got a file yesterday from Autodesk (TurnOffInternalOrigin.Dyn) that is meant to be run in Dynamo Player (it's a custom node in testing ATM). You can download the file, place it wherever your Dynamo Player is looking for files already or in Dynamo Player just browse to wherever you placed the file. Click the play button (see image) and it will turn off the Internal Origin in all views. This approach means very little Dynamo knowledge is necessary, just enough to get Dynamo Player open and find the file.

Since I already put in some time with my own graph which included the Survey Point and Project Base Point I decided I'd like to be able to turn on/off all three or just the internal origin or some combination. I modified my graph (Control Coordinate Graphics.dyn) to provide input options (see image).

When you use Dynamo player you can edit the input options through On/Off switches (see image).

Click the little Properties button (looks like a old Macintosh computer to me). Clicking the toggle will make the statement either true or false for each "hide" question. All three true = all off for example. Remember my graph is dependent on a node from the Archilib package, make sure you've installed that before trying to use it.

Revit 2020.2 Turn Off Internal Origin - Dynamo Option

In a thread at RFO John Pierson (Parallax Team, and Dynamo guru) got the ball rolling with a video link that described overriding graphics in views. I picked up the ball and created the graph but missed an essential but tiny setting for one node to make it work (Lacing - Cross Product).

The Dynamo Graph looks like this (click to Download).

You can use Dynamo, with this graph, to turn off the Internal Origin, Survey Point, and Project Base Point in floor and ceiling plans, sections, elevations and 3D views. Change the code block from False to True and it will turn them all on instead.

Regarding Jean-Marc's comment: I think he was suggesting this instead.

Revit 2020.2 - Internal Origin

A quick post to mention this since I've already run into this issue with users several times. The latest update for Revit introduces a new icon to mark the location of the file's Internal Origin. This is what it looks like in the 3D view.

It's off in all views initially, in the stock templates. Reveal Elements will display it quickly in a view without having to use Visibility/Graphics to show it. It can't be selected, it's just visible to help understand where it is.

Edit: It seems existing projects that are opened in 2020.2 have this Internal Origin turned on in all views (many). That's a bug in my opinion. They should not be turning this on. Though, in my own testing it is not getting turned on with upgraded files. It seems to be existing 2020 files that get this turned after opening it with the 2020.2.

Project Base Point - You won't see the clip when you select it. Move it away from the internal origin and it is automatically behaving as if it isn't clipped. In other words, it isn't clipped anymore. We couldn't really move the project origin, only the Project Coordinate System could be adjusted to provide a local coordinate reference for the Spot Coordinate tool, for example.

The Survey Point remains much the same.

When dealing with linked files you'll find that the icons for each of these is also visible but halftone (gray) to differentiate from the host file's own icons. You can snap to the links icon's to help align the files, using the Move tool for example.

I'll have to return to the subject once we've gotten fully acquainted.

Edit: 11/24/2019

I traded a couple emails with Autodesk staff on this. My understanding (not a developer) is this is not merely something they overlooked. Consider when a 2020 file is opened in 2020.2 it is not going through an upgrade because the file format is compatible. This creates a scenario where they are not activating upgrade code to resolve the existing file's structure with a new version's structure.

Unfortunately this new subcategory gets enabled and its visible status is "on" at the outset. It's my understanding that "off" isn't an option...in this scenario...without also creating an upgrade scenario...which is conceptually a no-go...within a release year.

Upgraded files go through an upgrade process which imposes rules on that process...which includes a task that deliberately "turns off" this new subcategory. It's a quirk of the file open sequence/process.

I think they didn't expect it to be a significant issue. It doesn't print after all. It can negatively affect zooming behavior in many views though. User perceptions can't be ignored either. An unexpected "thing" encroaching on views is "bad"...similar to seeing a view's crop boundary when not intended.

To their credit, they asked if I agreed they should create a Dynamo solution to turn it off in all views. Naturally I encouraged them to DO IT! Hopefully we'll be able to say that such a solution exists soon.