Showing posts with label Circuits. Show all posts
Showing posts with label Circuits. Show all posts

Friday, April 17, 2015

Revit MEP - Circuit Length Calculation

I received an email asking if I thought it would be possible to use a Line Based family to calculate wire length for circuiting purposes. It was prompted by reading an earlier post about using them for Egress Path calculation and documentation. I think it's a reasonable approach for Egress Paths because there is no such tool or concept already in Revit.

Electrical circuits on the other hand do calculate their length already, granted it does so simplistically. It combines the X/Y/Z distances of the devices from the panel (and each other) to arrive at a total circuit length.


A friend some years ago sent me a PDF that showed a bunch (a couple shown above) of different equipment and device layout schemes he did to better understand how Revit arrives at a value for Circuit Length. What it shows is that Revit does nothing to factor in obstacles which force the wiring to go up or down or around the things that are more than likely going to increase the total circuit length.

To be fair...how could it really? How detailed is the model? How long do we want the software to interrogate the model, the linked models to do a better job? It's a bit like requiring all conduit to be modelled, even 3/4" conduit feeding single gang boxes in a wall when there isn't a single stud in the model. Like with so many things in life, it's about context.

It's one thing to put a single gang box on a wall to indicate one is required here and another thing entirely to run conduit to all the way to it when you can't be sure it can really go there. Or like showing a pair of outlets back to back on a demising wall in a residential project where fire rating and sound attenuation would require them to be separated by a minimum distance.

Some things are still conceptual (schematic) in nature even in fairly detailed models. If we start modeling every stud then perhaps it becomes more reasonable to expect more system detail too. Then again if I have to create a run of (15) 3/4" conduits across a wall or ceiling I probably ought to model that situation because it's going to take up a lot of space and everyone else ought to be aware of it.

It's also been my observation that no matter how good software gets at a task there are always outliers that dismiss its results as still wrong. That written, it does matter and Revit should improve how it does calculations and how much say we have in the outcome because the length it calculates is also used internally to contribute to other calculations like wire sizing and voltage drop.

Setting aside how circuit length should be calculated (it might surprise you to know that engineers don't always agree on this), I'd consider this approach if my task was to determine how much wire was needed, a little closer to actual requirements than might show up in the circuit properties. I'd create a schedule focused on Electrical Circuits.


What you see above: I created a couple panels and added a bunch of duplex outlets. I assigned them to circuits. The schedule's second column is Revit's calculated length, no more effort on my part than placing devices, creating circuits and choosing a panel.

I sorted the schedule by Panel and then Circuit, provided a header for Panel and footer for totals. I added a parameter for Length Factor (a number) and then a Calculated Parameter for Total Estimate (a length) which uses a formula of Length Factor * Calculated (column 2).

Then I consider each circuit's circumstance and enter in a factor that increases or decreases Revit's own calculation according to how easy or hard the actual wire run or routing will be...or at least what I think it will be. A factor of 2 doubles the length etc. This calculation doesn't factor into load calculations like for Voltage Drop...but then neither would using a line based family.

This doesn't account for situations that might share a neutral (or ground) or runs that are comprised of individual conductors in conduit (like THHN or THWN) or a wiring combined into a common jacket like Cerro's NMB (a typical household wiring product).

That's the risk/difficulty of automatic calculations, the closer you examine situations the more outliers there are. It can be a bit like arguing about something being 99.6 percent correct. If it costs another $1000 to get to 99.9 or 100%...is that difference worth it?

Sunday, September 21, 2014

Revit 2015 R2 - MEP Circuit Sequence and Recently Used Panel

New Feature - Circuit Sequence

Somewhat related to yesterday's new electrical feature there is also a new Electrical Setting called Circuit Sequence. There are three choices: Numerical, Group by Phase and Odd then Even (a common request, to fill one side of the panel and then the other).


This helps determine how the next circuit that gets created is assigned to slots in a panel. Subtle but an important addition.

New Feature - Most Recently Used Panel

When we create a new circuit Revit now offers a list of panels on the ribbon, on the System Tools panel. It remembers the Most Recently Used Panel so creating a new circuit and assigning to a panel can be as little as two clicks. One click to select the electrical element and another to click on Power. As long as the correct panel is display in the drop down list box you can move on to another task. As you can see my favorite electrical panel is in the list already.


Subtle stuff makes me grin!

Thursday, May 29, 2014

Revit MEP - Choosing a Panel

This is a quick tip I picked up eavesdropping on a conversation with Martin Schmid (Autodesk). When you create a circuit and use Select Panel the list of panels in the drop-down on the Options Bar sorts the panels based on their proximity to your circuit's elements. That's pretty subtle and I never paid close enough attention to notice. I love subtle stuff!

Friday, May 02, 2014

Revit MEP - Wish for a Secondary Option

When we select an electrical panel (Electrical Equipment category) Revit will display the Distribution System parameter on the Options Bar to make it easy to assign one.


I think the Options Bar is suffering from an ongoing case of nobody loves me anymore or at least an identity crisis of sorts. The persistence of the Properties Palette means that there is some redundancy between it and the Options Bar. We can change parameters in either place, Revit doesn't care. It's just a little confusing at first glance, at least for new users...but I digress.

Transformers have a parameter called Secondary Distribution System. I think it is fair to say that this parameter is overlooked easily and often. That's because it is hiding in the Properties Palette in the Electrical - Loads group, along with a bunch of read-only parameters.


Later when we attempt to use Select Panel it pokes us in the eye when we can't choose the transformer. I'd like the Options Bar to respond like this when we select a Transformer. Subtle change but adding it here would make this less subtle.



2014 Revit OpEd

Saturday, August 24, 2013

Revit MEP Circuiting

I created a short video that describes the basic interaction between electrical devices and creating a circuit. It's really meant to help explain what happens when a device is already assigned to a circuit and we select it along with other elements that aren't circuited. The ribbon changes based on our selection and a circuited devices impairs our ability to create a circuit for the other devices that are eligible to create one.
  • A device that is not part of a circuit, when selected by itself, will cause the Power button to appear
  • A device that is part of a circuit, when selected by itself, will display the additional Electrical Circuit tab
  • Multiple devices that are both part of a circuit and not part of circuit will only display the context ribbon relevant for the devices, no circuit tab or power button
  • Selecting multiple devices that are assigned different electrical requirements will disable the Power button
When we select devices we need to be sure to glance at the ribbon for clues. Here's a video (no audio, turn on Captions).



I also wrote an earlier post about circuits if you're interested.

Tuesday, October 18, 2011

Who's Your Daddy - Revit MEP Relationships

Revit MEP elements like electrical panels and receptacles or HVAC equipment and diffusers have a Parent - Child relationship. The other day we were chatting about this in class and I blurted out "You know, like whose your Daddy?" I was kidding but one of the guys said that it actually helps remember to start with the "child" part of the relationship. For example, you start with a receptacle and create a power circuit, then choose the "Daddy", the electrical panel it gets power from. This relationship continues up through the grandparents, great grandparents etc. When everything is assigned correctly you can "see" this "family tree" in the System Browser.


So if it helps, when you are creating relationships between elements with Revit MEP, just remember "Whose your Daddy"! Start with the child and then assign the Daddy...