Large Extents -Can't Navigate in a View and-or View Will Only Show Wireframe

I've written about Revit's fussiness regarding large extents numerous times over the years. In some of those posts I mentioned a related view issue. A view that refuses to show the model in anything other than wireframe is a symptom of the large extent issue.

I recently encountered a project that didn't have any DWG files to blame for it. Not only did the view not show according to graphic style settings it didn't allow navigation of any sort. The view was frozen. We could open or close it but nothing else. I noticed I could use a crossing selection window but then using Filter to focus my troubleshooting effort was still too coarse.

I've been meaning to mention how much I like IDEATE Explorer (IE). It has been very useful to examine projects and track down issues. It permits examining a model in ways that Revit can't. for example, I can select a category of elements or instances of each family/type within the category.

I use it routinely to check for excess DWG imports (resulting from exploded DWG content), workset assignment, reviewing warnings (more effectively than Revit's own), phase assignment/usage, content naming/usage and resolve line style usage (and more).

After using the crossing selection window in various parts of the view I realized some structural elements seemed quite far apart. Keep in mind the view was a white screen of nothing...imagining gazing toward Earth from Mars and trying to pick out where California is or my house. The Project Base Point and Survey Point didn't even show up in the view.

I started with trying to isolate where in this vast white space the structural element was but no matter what I tried I seemed to always select some structural framing.

Once I knew which category to hunt in I used IE to look at individual framing elements. I found a single framing (W Beam) was 2+ million feet long. I expected to find a family very far away, not one that was just very long. I realized that a Structural Framing schedule could have revealed this element too, if I knew which category and to look at Length. I did make a schedule just to see if I missed any other really long framing.

One Beam, one verrrrry looonnng beam killed any view it was visible in. 3D views are where we were confronted with the problem but other views whose extent permitted the beam's true extent to affect the view were also victimized. In the end we rolled the project back to just prior to the beam being added. 

The views didn't "recover" from the harm when the offending beam was deleted. I surmise other aspects of the model were altered by the extent of the beam, perhaps scope boxes, crop boundaries, a connected or joined element...not sure. That will remain a mystery.

May your troubleshooting be quick, effective and "trouble" free.

DWG XREF Follow Up

 A year ago I wrote about XREF DWG files showing up in Revit even when they are assigned to Overlay vs Attached. It hasn't been resolved, meaning Revit is still doing it, no change...

Shortly after writing the post we arrived at our "solution", to assign all Xrefs (in AutoCAD/Civil 3D) to a unique layer(s) and turn that layer(s) off in Revit (via View Templates usually). This way the extra layers of the xrefs do not show up even though Revit is technically ready and willing to show them.

Manage Cloud Models - UI Real Estate

 I wish the list of projects I get when I use Manage Cloud Models (BIM 360 projects) didn't waste sooo much real estate. These big icons are a waste of space, they just mean lots of scrolling. Well if you only have a couple projects on BIM 360 maybe it's no big deal to you. But hundreds? I keep looking for a View option of "List" or "Details" ... something to shrink this bugger down.

That's my experience with Revit 2020 at the moment when a good many projects that I get to look at reside. I'll have to check out 2021 to see if it is any different.

Insert From File and BIM 360

When we're working on a BIM 360 hosted project there are times we'd like to use the Insert From File > Insert Views tool. Unfortunately BIM 360 isn't an available path in the Insert From File dialog.

Yes, we can download a copy of the project or open both projects and use Copy/Paste but it would be nicer to be able to use the tool itself as it is an easier/faster (more obvious) process.

Ramp Slope is Still a Second Class Citizen

Wrote about this before in 2013. Ramps and the Slope Annotation don't like each other. In the past we could work around their unfriendliness by dragging a working slope annotation from an adjacent floor to the ramp. That no longer works since as far back as 2019.

I'm reasonably sure Ramps have a slope... odd that the annotation doesn't think so? I wrote another post in 2013 too that describes using an adaptive point family to add some graphics to a floor posing as a ramp which might also permit using the slope annotation on it instead. Yet another thing to experiment with.

Then again it might just be better to ignore the ramp feature entirely in favor of Floors?

Revit 2021.1 Reset Shared Coordinates and Acknowledge Acquire Coordinates

I saw that Daniel Stine and Autodesk both wrote about the new point release for 2021. Daniel mentioned my past post about resetting shared coordinates because the latest update includes a new feature dedicated to that task.

I also wrote about Acquire Coordinates not rewarding us for successfully completing the task and they granted that wish too.

One of my post's was written in 2012, only eight years to get my wish. Glad I'm pretty patient.

Revit 2021 - W Shapes-Column Family is Missing

The stock imperial architecture template has the W Shapes-Column family loaded with two types: W10X33 and W10X49. I was experimenting with new features and noticed the family isn't part of the 2021 content deployment, weird. I had to reload from the 2020 version to add a size.

If it's not one thing it's another.

Revit 2021 Line Style Naming Tweak

I saw Jason (@RVT) tweet about this yesterday and I thought this is right up the Dept. of Subtle alley.

I've been telling people for years that the brackets meant "these belong to the Revit system" but then there were several other rogue line styles that came along without brackets. I had to explain that any line style you couldn't delete is also a system line styles...

Consider the Dept. of Subtle tickled.

Create or Opening a Section View Crashes Revit

Have you encountered this issue (and/or elevations)? By crash I mean Revit stops responding, the blue spinning wheel of death. One cause I've identified is HVAC Zones. I've been able to resolve each on so far by deleting the related zone(s) and creating the zone(s) again. I haven't figured out what is going wrong with the zones. I'm just calling it corruption for now but I have no idea if it is something I can prevent or see first yet.

Happy to hear if any readers have encountered this situation too.

Parameter is Missing for Some Types

From a thread at RFO, Aaron explains what's gone wrong...

Aaron wrote:

"If someone deletes a family that is also the default option for a Family Type, with that Shared Parameter: Yes, the entire parameter gets deleted. It's terrible behavior, and its been that way for years.

In case I wasnt clear: This is a known issue, and it's easily reproducible.

1. Take any Family that uses a Shared Family Type Parameter, that has a default value.
2. Find the family in the project browser, that is the Family and Type that's in the default value.
3. Delete that family from the Project Browser.
4. After you've clicked *DELETE* in the warning, go back to the original Family (the parent family with the parameter).
5. For JUST the types that had that default value set, that parameter is now gone.

And yes, the instances in your project are hella broken, now."

Keynote Schedules Not Updating

I wrote a post in April last year when we were observing some projects that would not update their keynote schedules during printing.

When they issued 2018.3 that issue was reportedly resolved. Moving forward into 2019 and 2020 versions it seems true. However we've seen a few projects that seem to continue to exhibit the problem. Specifically a keynote schedule does not show all of the keynotes that are actually visible in views on the sheet.

With these troubled project files we can force a regeneration IF each sheet view is open during printing. Like before turning the annotation crop boundary off/on or on/off will cause a regeneration too. However printing is when it matters the most. More testing is required before I can be certain there is an ongoing issue in the more recent releases but these projects do exhibit the problem in more recent versions too.

The current solution is to open all the sheets that must print first and then print to PDF. Alternately open a sheet view and print and repeat for all required sheets. If all the views are open then the revision schedule regenerates (you can watch it happen). The sheet view does not have to have Revit's focus, just has to be open in the background at least. Any sheet views that are not open won't refresh.

Revit 2020.2.1 Hot Fix Posted

Regarding my last post - a Revit 2020.1 Hot Fix is now posted.

Of specific interest...Autodesk writes:

Issues Resolved:
Fixed an issue that resulted in the loss of family data in some workshared models when family definitions had not been recently modified. This fix does not repair models which have encountered loss of family data, for more information refer to Family Corruption in Revit 2020.2

Revit 2020.2 Corrupt or Unusable Families Issue

Autodesk posted an article describing a particularly unpleasant bug/issue that started to appear shortly after 2020.2 was made available. This is the text from the article. If you're using 2020.2 pay close attention, you don't want to catch this bug. They've removed the 2020.2 download until they've resolved the situation.

Issue:
The Revit team has identified a defect with Revit 2020.2 that affects a small percentage of customer projects. In order to reduce the likelihood that customers come across this issue, we have temporarily removed the Revit 2020.2 updates while we work to provide a build that remedies this defect. For customers that have already installed Revit 2020.2, please see the FAQ below. We apologize for any inconvenience this issue may have caused.

Solution:

Q. What is the issue?
A. A change in the way that Revit 2020.2 processes families can cause family content to go missing from workshared central models created in previous versions if the families have existed in an active project for a long time without being modified. The defect results in the deletion of the family content from the central model.

Q. Which versions/models are affected?
A. This issue affects only Revit 2020.2. Previous versions are not affected.

Q. What models are affected?
A. The issue can affect workshared models that were created or upgraded in Revit 2020.0 or 2020.1 which are then repeatedly modified in Revit 2020.2. This issue can impact central models stored locally, on Revit Server, or in Revit Cloud Worksharing. The following models are NOT affected:
Non-workshared models
Workshared models created and exclusively modified in Revit 2020.2

Q. What if I have already installed Revit 2020.2?
A. If everyone on the project team is working in 2020.2, there are a few one-time operations you can take in a Revit 2020.2 build to prevent the issue:
Rename all families in the project (e.g. FamilyX to FamilyX-2 and then back to FamilyX)

OR

Save the model as a new central (must be a new file, not Save As to the same location)

OR

Reload all families (including company, Autodesk, and 3rd party families) in the project

OR

Move the entire project team back to Revit 2020.1
If the team is working on mixed versions, we suggest first getting everyone onto the same version. Working in a mix of Revit 2020.2 and earlier versions can reintroduce the issue to model(s).

Q. What is Autodesk doing to resolve the issue?
A. The Revit team has reproduced the issue and is actively working on a build that does not contain this defect. In the meantime, we advise against installing Revit 2020.2 until the Revit team provides an updated build. To reduce the likelihood that customers come across this issue, we have temporarily removed Revit 2020.2 updates from Accounts and the Autodesk Desktop Application. Due to backend constraints a full install of Revit 2020.2 continues to be available from Accounts.

Q. When will a fix be available?
A. Thanks to the support of our valued customers, the Revit team has been able to reproduce the issue and has identified a fix. In the next few days we will be thoroughly testing the fix. Assuming all goes well, it will then take the team a few more days to make the build available in Accounts and the Autodesk Desktop Application.

Q. Revit 2020.2 has been available for months – why didn’t Autodesk communicate anything previously?
A. The Revit team was first made aware of a possible issue by our customers a few weeks ago. Since these kinds of issues can be difficult to reproduce from scratch, from the time a concern was raised we have been working closely with those customers to reproduce the issue. We were finally successfully able to reproduce, and therefore confirm, the issue at the end of last week when we took action to limit the availability of Revit 2020.2. We have been working diligently to clarify the full scope of the impact and the possible workarounds in order to write this communication.

Q. Why didn’t the Revit team discover the issue during pre-release testing?
A. Unfortunately because this issue requires a combination of model creation and modification of families in a previous version and then extensive modification to the same model in 2020.2 it does not lend itself well to typical testing practices or automated regression tests. This means that unfortunately, despite rigorous Revit 2020.2 testing, we were not able to identify the issue before it affected customer models. We sincerely thank the customers that escalated the issue to us so that we are now able to take appropriate action.

Q. What actions will the Revit team take to prevent this kind of issue from happening again?
A. After the Revit team resolves the immediate issue, we will be holding a retrospective to clarify how the defect occurred and what specific actions we can take to prevent similar issues in the future. As much as possible we will look to create automated tests to cover this kind of situation as that means that every future Revit code submission will be scanned for similar problems.

Linked DWG Xref Overlay vs Attached Bug - Part Two

Two options exists to work around this situation (last post). One is easy and Revit focused but depends on the AutoCAD user a little and the second is impractical and depends on the AutoCAD user entirely.

• Xrefs on their own layer
• Xrefs always unloaded

If we can count on the AutoCAD user being consistent to assign all of the file's xrefs to a unique layer not shared by any other elements then we can still turn off the overlay xref when it shows up. This shouldn't be too difficult to achieve and many firms already have that standard for xrefs.

If the xref's are always unloaded before closing a file then they won't show up in a Revit project. That's pretty unlikely. It's inconvenient for AutoCAD users and forgetting just once and the system fails.

Linked DWG Xref Overlay vs Attached Bug

Revit has long understood the difference between a DWG having an attached or overlay external reference (Xref). It uses the same logic for its own linking behavior for RVT files. Recently a client began reporting seeing DWG files including Xref layers in Object Styles and Visibility/Graphics even though the DWG has only an overlay Xref. Revit seems to be converting the overlay Xref to a block element and including it and all the layers in the process.

We noticed it happening first with projects hosted on BIM360. That led me to consider it was because this firm isn't using Autodesk Desktop Connector. Not too surprising considering Autodesk recommends using it for linked DWG support on BIM360.

That's irrelevant now that I've reproduced it on a project file based on a stock template, doesn't use worksets and the all files are on a single PC. It's related to how Revit is reloading the linked DWG when a new session of Revit is opened.

It seems to matter that it is a new session of Revit, opening the project again, and to a lesser degree if there are changes in the DWG file. Any of those conditions seems to be enough to find an overlay Xref(s) showing up but reporting as a block element with Query. It is pretty easy to reproduce now that I've done it a few times.

• Start a new project
• Link a DWG with an Xref (overlay)
• Save the project > close it and the Revit session
• Open Revit again
• Open project (xref is now visible)

Variables:

• When the project is opened and the linked DWG has changes it will load the xref too.
• If after opening the Revit project the file looks correct using Reload From will display the xref afterward.

The images that follow are captured using Revit 2020.2. In this version using Reload From fixed it, a couple times but not every time. I've also run through this with 2018.3 and 2016 with similar results. I didn't try 2019 or 2017 because they are not installed on this particular PC.

This is the mockup DWG files.

This is the result of linking the file into a Revit project.

This is what happens after opening Revit and the project again.

This is what Revit's Query feature reports when selecting a line that belongs to the overlay Xref in the linked DWG.

It also occurred to me that it could happen if the host file's Xref was originally attached, when it was linked to Revit and changed afterward. Testing didn't support that theory. The example above is based on a xref that was placed as an overlay from the start, not changed to overlay. It also occurred to me that it might be related to large coordinate values. Civil files are linked here primarily. To rule that out, the mock up I show above is at the WCS origin and linked origin to origin.

This particular firm uses Civil 3D/AutoCAD for their civil and landscape disciplines so eliminating DWG files isn't in their future. This bug is annoying AND increasing the time required to prepare projects for plotting and publishing.

Assuming this isn't being caused by some aspect of this firm's EyeTee implementation (PC configuration and/or security measures) I'd love to hear some corroboration.

UnHelpful Help Location URL

I read about quirky Reviteristic issue at RFO this afternoon. A weird graphics glitch occurs when we interact with the Help Icon families that use the URL parameter feature to reference an external document. This is an example of it in the sample architecture model that ships with Revit (rac_basic_sample_project.rvt - in imperial content).

When we select the icon and examine its properties we get this Learning Link parameter.

When we click in the field the small button appears with the ellipsis icon. Clicking on the that button will take us to the URL saved in family.

The trouble begins after we move our cursor away from the field and start to resume work. The URL is stuck on screen over another parameter like below, the Detail Number parameter for the view.

I noticed that I can work past the issue if I click in the Default Analysis Display Style field, which I presume works because it also has an navigation/ellipsis style button.

I also noticed that if I am careful to click on the field right above the Learning Link, called Location, before leaving the Properties Palette I can avoid the issue too.

The forum thread was talking about this in 2019 but these images are from 2020.2. 

Revit 2020.2 Internal Origin Part Three

John Pierson and Parallax Team Apps recently shared a solution at the Autodesk App Store called Internal Origin Hide-ifier. I thought mine was cool but it doesn't install itself or come with a Doge.

It's only 1,000 bucks...nope its free!! Check it out.

Rename View Click Twice - Wish I Could Turn That Off

Title says enough? I'm sick of getting to rename a view when I really mean to open it. I must be losing my double clicking mojo...

If possible add it to the existing Double Click behavior options? Pretty please?

That was quick!! My wish is already granted: See Michael's comment for the Revit.ini code that provides my wish. Thanks Michael!

Edit: I changed both ini files for Revit 2020.2 and it doesn't disable the renaming behavior...so wish not granted, unless I'm doing it wrong.

Internal Origin Follow Up

After I shared the earlier Dynamo graph I received an email from Aaron Rumple that did away with any package requirements. He wrote a python script and added it to my graph. It also eliminates the warning message that appears after running mine. The crux of that issue is the need to filter out view templates from the process because while view templates are applied to views under the hood they are also views...at least that's my layman's understanding.

Many thanks to Aaron, a real design software savant.

Download the new Dyn

As before, my graph allows you to include/exclude the internal origin, survey point and project base point. Just edit the settings of the Dyn before running it (see previous post).

Work Plane Based Families and Rotate w Copy

I participated in a thread at Autodesk's Revit forum and it took me far too long to catch on to the issue described at the outset. I should have retraced the thread sooner, but I did get there eventually.

I'm referring to the Rotate tool and its Copy option, this...

The issue boils down to this: the Rotate with Copy option works/affects a Work Plane-Based (and face-based) family differently than when a family is merely hosted by a Level (all non "based" families). Let's start here, imagine I want two screens on my desk like this.

These are stock families: TV - Flat Screen.rfa and Desk.rfa The desk has a top surface that isn't visible in plan view so it can't act as a face to host the TV. I changed that. The TV isn't a work plane-based family. In a plan view, when I place it on the desk it ends up eaten by the desk because it looks like this in a 3D view.

Sure, I can use its Elevation from Level parameter to put it on the desk (an illusion of a relationship). When I move the desk I need to remember to select the TV too (or make a group...or...I digress). I get the clever idea, "Make this family Work Plane-Based, that's easy!"

Using Rotate with Copy should give me the result I want in the first image and it does until I check the box for Work Plane-Based. The angle I decide I want between the screens is 22.5 degrees. I added a couple reference planes for the images to help see what happens, the desired result.

That's what I want except that they should be hosted by the desk, not relying on using the Elevation from Level parameter. When I use Rotate with the Copy option after editing the TV family to make it Work Plane-Based (also Always Vertical is checked) I get this result.

Notice the TV angle itself is correct but it's location is wrong...and a warning message appeared to help me notice... It's been moved/copied by double the input value of 22.5 degrees using the origin of rotation correctly and managed to maintain the angle I wanted. This next image summarizes what happened.

That's weird enough on its own but I can go weird by one more, un-check the TV's Always Vertical parameter. After running through the exercise again I get this outcome.

This time it applied the rotation input angle of 22.5 degrees x 2 = 45 degrees to both rotating the family and its position. This time it did it fully wrong while the previous time it only did it half wrong.

Introduce a Floor, instead of a desk family, into the mix and place the TV family before it is Work Plane-Base with Always Vertical and this happens. No rotation, just copy and in the same place no less.

When the TV family is Work Plane-Based and Always Vertical is used then it works wrong in the same way as relying on the desk's face as the host did.

I imagine Revit is attempting to relate the rotation and copy actions to the family's host, since that is the work plane the family is hosted by. Clearly it is unable to do so properly. I think it is reasonable to expect to get the same result whether level based or work plane-based. This post and the images are from using Revit 2020.2 but I did the same things in Revit 2016 with the same results. This has been around for quite awhile now.

If it is any consolation, the Mirror and Polar Array tools don't suffer from this malady but each have their own prep work required to make them a ready replacement.